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The Purpose of The Lake of Fire

by admin on Tuesday 25 November 2008 - 01:03:29

The Purpose of the Lake of Fire
Or
The Disciplinary Punishment
of the Wicked

There is a thought that continues to arise as a "rebuttal" of Universalist teaching from those who oppose it. It is thrown into the fight as though there was no answer to this rebuttal, leaving us no choice but to see the hopeless fallacy of Universalism. It is important for us to understand something here, as believers in Universalist thought, in consideration of this objection. That is that this "rebuttal" is really no rebuttal. There is nothing for a Universalist to be afraid of in seeking an answer to this question. Let me explain...

The following is a quote from Arthur Pink in his rebuttal of Universalism, concerning the punishment of the wicked:

4. THE THEORY THAT THE PUNISHMENT OF THE WICKED IS DISCIPLINARY AND REMEDIAL.

21. ... if the fires of hell are to do for men what the blood of the Cross failed to effect, then why was the Divine Sacrifice needed at all—all might have been saved by the disciplinary sufferings of hell, and so God could have spared His Son. Again; if God compassionates His enemies and cherishes nothing but gracious designs of infinite pity toward those who have despised and rejected His Son, we may well ask, then why does He take such dreadful measures with them? If loving discipline be all that they need, cannot Divine wisdom devise some gentler measure than consigning them to the "torment" of the Lake of Fire for "the ages of the ages?"

You can find the article this excerpt was taken from in its entirety here.

If you have ever spent much time debating Universalism with "unbelievers", you are very familiar with this objection. Basically it is asking the same question in one of two forms: “If Jesus died to save everybody, why is there a lake of fire?” Or; “If everybody is going to be reconciled in the fire, why did Jesus have to die on the cross?”

Many of us who realize the truth of Ultimate Reconciliation stumble over this well thought out, seemingly intelligent question when we are confronted with it. We may have even pondered this question ourselves. But as for the idea of a Universal Salvation of all men, the correct answer to this question will only add to its validity.

Quick question for you..."What did the Blood of Jesus procure for you?"
Was it salvation? Yes. How about forgiveness of our sins? Yes.

However, if forgiveness of sins was all that the Father was after, He already has what He wanted.

Allow me to quote David Sprenger on Luke 23:34:

Lk23:34 Jesus said, "Father forgive them; they know not what they do.”
[Ed., This incredible request by Jesus, together with His suffering and death on the cross for the sins of the world, becomes the ultimate picture and the eternal symbol of the heart and intention of God toward lost humanity. Furthermore, this declaration of God's ultimate redemptive purposes was made, eternally speaking, from the beginning of time, by "the lamb slain from the foundation of the world"! (Rev 13:8)]

When Jesus said, “It is finished.” and gave up the ghost, all of humanity was forgiven. From Adam, to the last person born at the ends of the ages, sin was forgiven in all its forms. We will only stop to consider a few scriptures here in the interest of keeping this short. But this is well documented in scripture.

David Sprenger again:

Jn 1:29 The next day he [John the Baptist] saw Jesus coming to him, and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!" [Ed., "the sin" is in the singular, indicating the complete removal of the "sin principle", or sin itself with all of its consequences, not just the individual acts of sin.]

Heb 9:26 But now once at the consummation (end of the age) He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

I John 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

Heb 1:3 who being the brightness of His glory, and the very image of His substance, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Notice He sat down on His throne. All the preparatory work has been done. Every obstacle to His Ascension of the Throne has now been removed, and all opposing forces have been put down. So now, there is nothing left for Him to do, but to rule and reign. And now, He ever liveth to make intercession for us. By the shedding of His very own lifeblood, He purged our sins and He is now seated in rulership authority above all creation.

Forgiveness of sins is already an established fact. And so also is the reconciliation of the world. The world stands reconciled before God the Father because of the awesome power of the atoning sacrifice of Jesus.

II Cor 5:18 Now all these things are from God, who reconciled (past tense) us to Himself through Christ, and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

Again:

Col 1:19-22 For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven. And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach.

As side note, let’s take a look at the word “forgive“. When Jesus walked the streets of Jerusalem, He spoke Aramaic. That was the common universal language of the day, much like English is today. The definition we now have of “forgive” has been given to us by the Harvard School of Law, so I am told. It means to “let go”. When a trespass is committed, the wronged party just “lets go” of it. In other words, the trespass is still there, but the wronged party just “foregoes” exacting retribution. In doing so, they are said to forgive those who have trespassed against them. But, in Aramaic, to forgive takes on a whole new dimension of meaning. When Jesus spoke the word, forgive meant “to restore love by removing the cause of it’s loss.” It entailed the removal of the trespass as well as also restoring the lost or damaged relationship to its original state. If you stop to really think about that, it puts “forgiveness” in a whole different dimension than merely letting go of the need for retribution.

In this light, forgiveness is also very much akin to reconciliation.

We are forgiven, (which is a much bigger word than we have been taught,) and we have been reconciled, but there is something else that is in the heart of the Father. The restoration of a lost relationship is a three-step process. 1) In the heart of the wronged party, there has to be forgiveness toward the guilty party. 2) Then, there has to be reconciliation. And this is by necessity a two-way reconciliation. Both of these steps are accomplished, and are established facts. The Father no longer finds any charge to lay against us. Neither is there any longer any impediment to our relationship with Him. But He will never be satisfied with that alone. He wants more. And He will stop at nothing to get it.

There is a further step in the process that is also important. It completes the show of extravagance that the Father has lavished upon creation because of the Blood of the Lamb. It isn't established fact yet. And, in the past, the Church hasn't spent a whole lot of time expounding on it. And this is why the argument presented here in Pink's Rebuttal sounds so valid, when in fact it is a confusion of apples and oranges. If this third step was ever mentioned, it was often relegated to those who wanted to be "super-spiritual" i.e; the spiritual elite that walk among us, so to speak. However, this third step in the process is the Sovereignly foreordained destiny of all creation. That is this: to be like Him. To be found in His likeness. To be made conformable to His image. This goes beyond being just forgiven, or reconciled.

Rom 6:5 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, we shall be also in the likeness of His resurrection.

Rom 8:29 -32 For whom He foreknew, He also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom He foreordained, them He also called: and whom He called, them He also justified: and whom He justified, them He also glorified. What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? He that spared not his own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not also with Him freely give us all things?

In fact, this defines the very scope and purpose of what is revealed to us as the Lake of Fire. This is the answer to Brother Pink’s question in his rebuttal to Universalism. People are not going to be saved, but transformed into His image in the Lake of Fire. By that I mean that it is the fire that purifies and refines His image in you as you walk with Him. For the overwhelming majority of people, the “foreordained conformation to the image of His Son” will take place in the Lake of Fire. The world has been forgiven. The world has been reconciled. As for now, it has been given the choice of whether to go through the fire on this side of the veil of death, or on the other. But make no mistake; all of creation will go through the Lake of Fire. There is no escape. But it is not an act of Divine Retribution, or of Him “getting even” with humanity for all the sins they have committed. It is an act of His mercy. It is an exhibition of His Love for all creation. It is an example of the extremes He will go to redeem His lost creation.

Let me address a few misconceptions about the Lake of Fire.

1) The Lake of Fire is commonly described as a place of darkness.
How can you have a fire and not have light? Take darkness out of the picture here, please. You can go to the deepest, darkest part of a cave, where no light exists; where the native creatures have no eyes; where you can’t see your hand in front of your eyes, and there light a match. What happens to the darkness? It disappears. The cave around you is flooded with light. The Lake of Fire is not a place of darkness.

2) The Lake of Fire is described as a place of separation from God.
For that to be true, we have to do away with Rev. 14:10b where it says: “…and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb…”
You can’t be separated from Someone, and still be tormented in His presence. It just doesn’t happen that way.

So far in the Lake of Fire, we have light, and the presence of the Lamb. Almost sounds like the kind of place I want to be. Let’s continue…

3) The Lake of Fire is commonly thought of as occupying Eternity, or that one will be there for eternity. The Lake of Fire has to be relegated to time and it can’t have much in common with eternity if there is going to be the continuous passage of night and day there. Compare Rev. 14:11, “…and they have no rest day or night…” Either we believe the scriptures, or we make excuses for the fact that we don't.

Suddenly, when you scrutinize the factual details surrounding the Lake of Fire, we begin to see a different picture than what we have been taught all our lives to see. It is a place of Great Light. It is a place where those who go there will be immersed in, bathed in and surrounded by and cleansed in His Glorious Presence. And as I am about to show you, that cleansing will be for the purpose of forming His image in the one being cleansed.

So, let’s take the time to strip away all the stuff that doesn’t belong, and take a closer look at this fire and brimstone. Doing so will dispel the fear, take away the superstition, and hopefully reveal a dimension of the love of God that isn’t clearly visible anywhere else. Nowhere have I seen the love of the Father so clearly than when I began to see the Lake of Fire for what it really is.

From the founder of the Pittsburg Bible Institute:

“The Lake of Fire and Brimstone signifies a fire burning with brimstone; the word 'brimstone' or sulphur defines the character of the fire. The Greek word THEION translated 'brimstone' is exactly the same word THEION which means 'divine.' (emphasis mine) Sulphur was sacred to the deity among the ancient Greeks; and was used to fumigate, to purify, and to cleanse and consecrate to the deity; for this purpose they burned it in their incense. In Homer's Iliad (16:228), one is spoken of as purifying a goblet with fire and brimstone. The verb derived from THEION is THEIOO, which means to hallow, to make divine, or to dedicate to a god (See Liddell and Scott Greek-English Lexicon, 1897 Edition). To any Greek, or any trained in the Greek language, a 'lake of fire and brimstone' would mean a 'lake of divine purification.' The idea of judgment need not be excluded. Divine purification and divine consecration are the plain meaning in ancient Greek. In the ordinary explanation, this fundamental meaning of the word is entirely left out, and nothing but eternal torment is associated with it.”

Charles Pridgeon; Is Hell Eternal, or Will God’s Plan Fail; pgs 116 & 117.

Here, Brother Pridgeon makes a vital point: brimstone is for purification, not punishment. This thought went unquestioned until the Dark Ages. His purpose was understood to purify and consecrate, not separate and punish. This Lake of Divine Fire will purify, refine, restore and consecrate til there is nothing left that is contrary to Him.

An interesting note here, going along with the train of thought is that the Greek word for fire is pur, and is where we get such words as pure, purify and purgatory. Fire in this sense is for purification, not destruction.

A good friend, David Johnson, from Ontario Canada once told me:

“My friend: The Lake of Fire burns with the Divine One! All aspects of His purposes, and the ultimate goal to which He draws His creation, is bathed in the Kitharas (clean, pure) Fire of His presence. The City, is the City of Fire. Main Street, is the Katharos Street, in the City of Fire: the Street of Fire! The followers of the Lamb in His whithersoever, are clothed in fire garments of katharos fire....their consciences are katharos consciences; their call unto the Father is one of a katharos heart, with bodies washed in the pure Katharos River flowing from under the thresholds of the Throne of God. They call ceaselessly unto God; and to the other members of the fellowship of the mystery out of a katharos heart, and serve Him with a katharos conscience, purified in fire. Blessed are the katharos in heart for they shall see God!

What a terrible day it is when one's eyes catch a microscopic glimpse of the Transcendent One. His body like beryl; His face like lightning; His eyes like torches of fire; His feet like polished brass burning in a furnace. His voice like the sound of an army! And standing ministering before Him are countless myriads who have been transformed by the River of fire that flows from His countenance; and live in the present continuous unfolding of His glory! Yes, the Lake of Fire is our God; and flowing in and out of the Limne (lake, pond) of Theos, (God) is the River of Theos, feeding the Tree of Life (My emphasis) that can only be experienced by going through the flaming swords of the Lord, flashing in every direction!”

In Isaiah 30:33, the breath of the Lord is likened to a “streaming torrent of brimstone”. Yes, brimstone! His breath is like brimstone. That would be the same breath that He breathed into Adam’s nostrils and caused him to become a living soul. It is also the same breath that blew into the Upper Room on the Day of Pentecost and left little cloven tongues of fire over people’s heads.

Job 37:10 By the breath of God ice is given; And the breadth of the waters is straitened.

Notice the beauty here. This streaming torrent of brimstone, the breath of God, causes frost. It “straitens” water. This brimstone that is the breath of God, which actually effuses from His presence can be harsh and destructive if needed, or soft and gentle, even protective when He chooses. Consider the Overcomers. The promise is given that they “would not be hurt at all” of the Lake of Fire. Despite popular assumptions to the contrary, that is not the same thing as “escaping” the Lake of Fire. They will be there, just not hurt by it.

The Lake of Fire is far removed from the awful image that was left to us by our forefathers from the Dark Ages. It isn’t something that should frighten so badly that it makes little children have nightmares. And we shouldn’t refrain our discussion of it while in the presence of children.

Imagine if you will, (it may be a new thought) that the very presence of the Holy Spirit you feel sometimes making you want to shout, or maybe giving you goose-bumps, is the very same “stuff” that will torment the unsaved in the afterlife. His breath is likened unto a “streaming torrent of brimstone”, and His breath also causes frost and straitens the breadth of water. Soft and gentle, or harsh and destructive. Same breath, same Wondrous God.

Dan 7:9 I beheld till thrones were placed, and One that was Ancient of Days did sit: His raiment was white as snow, and the hair of His head like pure wool; His throne was fiery flames, and the wheels thereof burning fire.
A fiery stream issued and came forth from before Him: thousands of thousands ministered unto Him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

Here we have the Ancient of Days, a description of God the Father Himself, the Supreme Ruler of the Universe, in all His glory and majesty, and the key descriptive word used to describe the scene is fire. Not rainbows or earthquakes, or even the singing of angelic beings. The key descriptive word is fire. That little detail is too significant to overlook.

Notice that in verse 10, the fire issued from Him and came out from before Him who is the Ancient of Days. He is the source of that fire. He is the fire. The fire is Him. And that is why, if you have noticed, that I always capitalize Lake of Fire. I am absolutely convinced that the nature, the essence, the substance of His being is this purifying, cleansing Fire. And when you speak of the Lake of Fire, you are speaking of the bone of His bone, and the flesh of His flesh. The two are inseparable and indistinguishable, one from another.

A stream of Fire issues from Him. I learned in grade school geography that streams and rivers run into and out of lakes. The Lake of Fire is one and the same as the Stream of Fire that issues from Him. The Lake of Fire is one and the same as the source of that Fire to begin with.

“I will refine them as silver is refined, and try them as gold is tried.” Zech. 13:9

Gold is tried. Silver is refined. The not so obvious difference being that gold is tested to determine the quality of it‘s makeup. Silver needs to have impurities removed, and therefore purified, by a process involving heat.

The Jamieson, Faussett & Brown Commentary, says that during the process of purification of metals:

“The purifier sits before the crucible, fixing his eye on the metal, and taking care that the fire be not too hot, and keeping the metal in, only until he knows the dross to be completely removed, by his seeing his own image reflected in the glowing mass.”

Silver has several interesting properties. The most commonly recognized is it’s reflective property. A vat of pure molten silver will perfectly reflect your image back at you if you were to look into the vat. That property was taken to it’s best advantage in the development of the mirror. When you look into a mirror, silver is what is reflecting your image back at you.

But this is speaking of a process of applying heat to a crucible of silver, causing the silver to melt. If the heat is sufficient, and held there long enough, impurities will come to the surface, where they can be easily drawn off. And this is a description of an ongoing process that is taking place in our lives whereby His image is being produced in us by the removal of the things that cloud that image. When He sees Himself, He knows He can turn the heat off.

On the other hand, we see that gold is tried. What does it mean for gold to be tried? Let’s say that on your last camping trip, you found a yellow nugget you think might be gold. How would you find out for sure just what it was? You would take your precious yellow nugget to an assayer’s office. One of the things he would do is drizzle some acid on your yellow nugget. If your precious yellow nugget is gold, the acid will run off like water. If it is anything else, the acid will fizz and smoke, and your yellow nugget will be damaged by the reaction.

Keep that in mind and consider: “He who overcomes will not be hurt at all by the second death.” We know that the second death is to be cast into the Lake of Fire. The overcomer has already been in the vat and the impurities have been removed by the Holy Fire of God. There are no impurities to react to the Master Assayer’s acid test.

We have been apprehended of Him to bear His image in this world. If we would just stop with all the struggle against Him, as though we were afraid He might take something from us: If we would stop shrinking back in fear when He tries to lead us in paths of righteousness for His name’s sake, we would have this Holy Fire of God, coursing through us like a streaming torrent. We would be cleansed. We would reflect His image to a world steeped in darkness. We just need to discover that we can trust Him to not have the heat too high, or leave us in too long.

What about if I pass into the next life and the work of purification isn’t finished yet? The Lake of Fire will continue the work on the other side of the veil. And that thought is nothing to be afraid of. I see no hint or sign in the scriptures that the fact that I know Him now is a guarantee that I won’t find myself in the Lake of Fire later. And that isn’t a threat, it’s one of the most glorious promises of scripture!

Jesus’ death on the Cross, His willful shedding of His very own lifeblood purchased the forgiveness of your sin. It reconciled the fallen creation back to Himself. It also opened a way that all of creation might one day reflect His image with perfect likeness.

The Blood of Jesus procured for you and me much more than a mere Sunday School Salvation. "Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sin." But as we are, without further processing, we would be pitiful reflectors of His glorious image. And that is why the Lake of Fire is necessary for the Universal Salvation of all mankind. What a glorious promise we have! Not that we would be merely saved and someday go to heaven, as we have been taught all our lives, but that we might reflect His likeness! Not simply to be washed in His blood, as great a blessing that is, but to shine forth as the sun with the glory of God in our beings! The Lake of Fire is the means the Father has implemented to bring this to a factual reality. And this promise isn't given to a few who might find Him in this lifetime. It is to all who are afar off, to all men in every nation, to all men universally. And that is why we call it Universal Salvation

18 December 2005
Wayne Sloan
http://enduring-grace.com

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Does All mean All?

by admin on Tuesday 22 April 2008 - 08:30:19

Christian Fellowship Ministries

Colossians 1:15-20 – Does “all” mean “all”?

Seven times in six verses Paul declares and emphasizes “all creation”, “all things” and “everything”, stressing the supremacy of Christ. This supremacy is defined in several area;

1) The Creation of “all things”
2) He preceded “all thing”
3) “All things” hold together, or are sustained, by Him.
4) He is the head of the Church, His body.
5) He is the first to raise from the dead in an incorruptible body (in contrast with Lazarus, who raised but later died like all others who raised from the dead)
6) “All fullness” of God dwelt in Him.
7) “All things” are reconciled in Him.

Read the verses.

15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

The message is very clear. The Exaltation of Christ. Now here is the issue. Most believers will happily acknowledge points 1-6. However, when it comes to point 7, that Christ is reconciling, or has reconciled, “all things” to Himself, excuses and exceptions abound!

John 1:3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

We are fine that He created “all things” and gladly state that, as we are told in John 1:3, there is absolutely nothing that was made outside of Jesus Christ. Indeed, not only does creation have its full origin in Jesus, but he “sustains” it. In other words, the very microscopic laws of the universe, gravity, the shining of the sun, the continuing of the rain, and all other things are rightly proclaimed in full scope to be the work of Christ.

So if the definition of “all things” is a literal ALL THINGS for these operations of Jesus, why is it not for point seven?

Or is it?

Think about this. If you decide or interpret “all things” in point seven to have exceptions or to be idiomatic language or to have some other less than literal meaning, are you not forced by language and logic to conclude that “all things” in the rest of the passage does not really carry the scope of a literal “all things”? Be honest now.

The clear and inescapable answer for every honest interpreter is, “absolutely and of course”. Indeed, the most advanced scholar or the simplest first grade reader must agree that language requires a consistent definition of “all things” through this chapter.

If one determines that “all things” with regard to the scope of reconciliation of Christ is not literal, then one has absolutely no choice but to determine that the other operations and positions of Christ do not include a literal absolute of ALL. What would that imply? What would happen if we remove the literal ALL from the scope of reconciliation and thus the rest of the thought Paul so vigorously conveys? It is this. There is the reality or at least the possibility that:
1)Christ created some things and other things just happened or were created by someone else. Thus, John was incorrect in John 1:3.
2)There very may well have been someone before Christ! As Christ and the Father are one, that would mean that someone could very well have preceded the Father as well, thus God is not God.
3)Only some things are maintained by Christ. Perhaps there are universal physical laws that are greater than our Lord and God. Thus, again, God is not God.
4)The church is or could be headless. An eternally ineffective entity.
5)Perhaps someone else gained eternal and incorruptible life BEFORE Christ, thus saying that it is possible to have LIFE outside of Christ and our Father. If that is true, why do we even need Christ?
6)If All is not all, then the Father only partially had oneness with Jesus. Jesus is not as exalted as we thought, in this case. Is He the Son of God or not? Without the All being All, that is a real and serious question.
7)Again, if All is not All, then Christ’s work on the cross was only marginally effective, if at all. Since it appears to be up to Humans or Chance, then God is robbed of His choice and Humans are exalted as their will overpowers Divine Perogative.

Few, if any, who have stated that Christ did not reconcile all in a literal way would ever accept the 7 points above as being possible. One could rightly say these seven conclusions are heretical or blasphemous. I do not use those terms lightly, because those conclusions above rob our Father, Jesus and Holy Spirit of their most essential attributes and reduce God to a minor deity more akin to Greek Gods than to the sovereign creator of the Universe.

At the same time, however, one cannot eliminate the scope of ALL in reconciliation without having those unintended dire consequences. It would be a logical contradiction.

Now, do I state that those who do not accept ALL being ALL are caught in a great sin or heresy? Let me be clear. Those who deny the clear definition of ALL, in almost every case, have not considered the above logic. The denial of these facts is from not knowing. That is the point of this little commentary – to enlighten with clear evidence the grandeur of our Lord and Savior! The point is not to condemn but to illustrate, teach and help as many as possible in this current day to see how exceedingly GREAT and POWERFUL and LOVING and JUST God truly is!!

It has been said that anything that exalts MAN is probably wrong if it does not exalt GOD. Let me ask you: does the choice of Christ to both CREATE and RECONCILE ALL exalt Man or God? Does it exalt God MORE than if it depends on Man’s free will? Again, the answer is obvious. If Man has the ultimate choice in salvation, the Man’s will supercedes God’s and MAN is exalted more than GOD in this choice. On the other hand, if Paul was correct in the verses above, God’s will is exalted far above any person and indeed the whole of all created beings!

I propose, therefore, that the exaltation of MANS CHOICE and the denial of the scope of reconciliation logically exalts MAN far above his place and robs God.

There are many other equally compelling scriptures that when plainly and logically reviewed lead inexorably to the conclusion: All things will be reconciled to God by Christ with no exceptions, just as there are no exceptions to anything being created outside of God.

It’s that simple. It’s that straightforward. Let us deal honestly, logically and consistently with the scriptures for in them, God is revealed to be higher and greater than most have ever imagined!!

David Parkhurst
davep.at.fellowship.to

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15 Questions for Teachers of Eternal Torment

by admin on Monday 21 April 2008 - 22:01:52

This is an adaptation of a similar article called: '30 Questions for Teachers of Eternal Torment' which can be found on the Harvest Herald Website, and was to be used in a formal debate on the scriptural validity of Universalism. That debate never happened. My opponent bowed out as I prepared my opening statements.

However, I invite any teacher of Eternal Torment to view these questions, and to give me any intelligent response they can come up with (to these questions).

(1):Could you please explain why none of the twelve New Testament references to Gehenna mention physical torment of any kind?

(2):Are you aware of the fact that Gehenna is a proper noun and the title of a literal place which exists on earth to this day?

(3):Please tell me why Hades and Gehenna, although two very different things, both are translated as ‘hell’ in the King James Bible?

(4):When you quote Jesus’ words that ‘the worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched’ (Mark 9) in reference to hell, do you also make clear that Jesus was quoting Isaiah 66:24, where in that passage the fire and worms feed on dead bodies and not immortal souls for all eternity?

(5):Scripturally speaking, is an 'unquenchable fire' one that never goes out; or do you teach that Hell is an ‘unquenchable fire’ without making reference to Jeremiah 7:20, 17:27, Ezekiel 20:47-48 to show the Biblical use of this phrase?

(6):

"Revelation 14:10-11" wrote ...
and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Does this apply to mankind in general or to a specific class of people ?

(7):Does Revelation 14:10-11 say that the torment of these goes on forever, or that the ‘smoke’ of this torment arises forever?

(8):The language in Revelation 14 is taken from the description of the destruction of Edom (Idumea) in Isaiah 34:10 where the smoke is also to arise ‘forever’. In that passage it is the land which burns with fire and brimstone, and it is the burning of the land which 'shall not be quenched' and from which the smoke would arise 'forever and ever'. Why is it that when this language is quoted in Revelation 14, all these passages are applied to 'hell' when the passage and language they are taken from clearly refers to an earthly condition and earthly judgments?

(9):If the warning of Revelation 14:10-11 is a reference to torment in the ‘Lake of Fire’ then why in Revelation 19:20-21 when the lake of fire appears are those who were thus warned not cast there but simply killed?

(10):Throughout the book of Revelation symbols are explained in a consistent manner; fine linen IS the righteousness of the saints, the candlesticks ARE the churches, the ten horns ARE ten kings. Why is it that when we are told ‘the lake of fire IS the second death’ this logic is reversed to mean ‘the second death IS the lake of fire’?

(11):Can you please provide one verse of scripture which states that Hell is a lake of fire?

(12):Can you please provide one verse of scripture which states that Jesus died to save mankind from hell?

(13):Could you please provide one verse of scripture which states that ‘weeping and gnashing of teeth’ takes place in hell?

(14):Can you please provide one verse of scripture which states that ‘weeping and gnashing of teeth’ is an eternal condition for the unsaved?

(15):If you cannot provide scripture for the four previous questions are you at least willing to admit that these are based only upon your own assumptions and not on the Word of God, and then stop preaching these things altogether?

For more information, and further reading, please visit The Harvest Herald Website.

Thank You!

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An excerpt from A.P. Adams

by admin on Monday 14 April 2008 - 09:29:41

I will give a brief SUMMARY of the points noticed in the article, that the reader may have the whole subject before him in as compact a form as possible.

l. The atonement was not to satisfy God's Justice, but to reveal his Love.

2. The justice of God is not against the sinner, demanding his condemnation, but for him, insuring his salvation.

3. God is not in contrast with, much less in opposition to Christ in the atonement, but in perfect harmony and accord.

4. The atonement is not the exclusive work of Christ in order to reconcile God unto the world, but it is the work of "God in Christ" to reconcile the world unto himself.

5. Christ does not have to plead with God in order to make him willing to pardon the sinner, but God, by his ministers, "beseeches'' (2 Cor. 5:20) the sinner to make them willing to be pardoned.

6. Hence the atonement is not to propitiate God, but man; not to make God favorably disposed toward man, but to make his favor known to man.

7. Christ did not die as our substitute, but as our companion and associate; not instead of man but with him and for him.

8. Christ did not die to save us from the penalty of sin, but from sin itself.

9. Christ did not die that we might not die, but to deliver us out of a death in which we were already involved.

10. The sinner is not redeemed because he repents, but he is called upon to repent because he has been redeemed.

11. The atonement is not the cause of God's love to man, giving rise to that love, but the effect, flowing out of that love.

12. The final outcome of the atoning scheme is not a partial success, but a perfect, absolute, and universal triumph.

In every one of these particulars the popular theology is just the opposite of the truth. I do not say that the creeds and standards formally enunciate all these errors (although even this is true of some of them) , but I do say that the language of the creeds and standards inevitably lead to these errors, and the popular utterances upon the subject inculcate and confirm them, so that practically, they are the belief of the vast majority of Christians. And I would repeat what must be apparent to every thoughtful mind, that these errors are not small and unimportant, slightly differing from the truth,—but they are just the opposite of the truth; those who hold and teach them, "call evil good, and good evil; they put darkness for light, and light for darkness, bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter;'' and the present effect is Babylon (i.e. confusion) , and the final outcome will be ruin. (Isa. 24:14).

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Why I Believe No One Will Stay In Hell

by admin on Friday 04 April 2008 - 22:08:52

I like these "do you know" kind of things. They always contain lots of food for thought in a condensed form that is easy to digest. I shamelessly stole this one from Debbie Boutwell's website.

Why I Believe No One Will Stay In Hell

I am using the word "Hell" here strictly for the benefit of those of you who do still believe it is a literal place of fire, pain, and torture. When it comes right down to it, not only do I believe no one will stay in Hell, I believe no one will GO to Hell, because "that" Hell doesn't exist, nor has it ever existed.

God defines Himself as “Love”.
God is sovereign. There is no greater power. He gets what He wants.
He will have ALL MEN to be saved.
He instructs us to pray for ALL MEN.
We were created FOR God
Man nor devil can overthrow His plan.
God planned the fall of man, in Adam. (Lamb was slain before foundation of the world)
God created vessels of honor and dishonor(Judas, Pharaoh) for His plan.
God created all of creation in corruption and futility.
God created all of creation with the hope of being delivered from it.
Our view of Hell does not come from the Bible.
None of the 4 words translated “hell” indicate endlessness.
The Lake of fire appears to be God, Himself. (see interesting words)
If punishment of unbelievers is endless, some scriptures must be ignored.
God commands all men everywhere to repent.
Christ will reign until all are in submission to Him.
Every knee will bow in worship and every tongue will confess Jesus as Lord
Jesus is the only way to God. No man comes except through Him.
No man comes to God unless He is drawn by God’s spirit.
Jesus said, if He was crucified that He would “draw” all men to Himself.
The Greek word for “draw” literally means drag.(check it out yourself)
Jesus tasted death for every man.
God has concluded all in unbelief that He may show mercy to all.
God's punishments are corrective.

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IS WHAT YOU BELIEVE BASED SOLELY ON SCRIPTURE?

by admin on Friday 04 April 2008 - 22:07:40

IS WHAT YOU BELIEVE BASED SOLELY ON SCRIPTURE?

THE ANSWERS MAY SURPRISE YOU!
Author Unknown

Did you know:

(1)That the phrase "immortal soul" occurs nowhere in scripture?

(2)That the phrase "eternal torment" occurs nowhere in scripture?

(3)That the word "immortal" occurs only once in scripture (1 Tim 1:17) referring to God only?

(4)That the single word "Hell" in a King James Version is translated from three different Greek words, and one Hebrew word?

(5)That the word translated "Hell" in the Old Testament is always translated from the Hebrew word sheol which is translated 29 other times as "grave", and 3 other times as "pit"?

(6)That the Bible nowhere says that "Hell is a lake of fire"?

(7)That the Bible nowhere says that those in hell "weep and gnash their teeth"?

(8)That the Bible speaks of many "unquenchable fires" in the past which are not currently burning?

(9)That when Jesus spoke of "unquenchable fires" and "undying worms", he was quoting from Isaiah 66:24 in which the fire and worms feed on dead bodies, not immortal souls?

(10)That the Bible says that souls can bleed, souls can be hit with swords, souls hunger, souls thirst, and that souls can die?

(11)That the Bible also calls animals "souls"?

(12)That the Bible nowhere says "To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord"?

(13)That the apostle Paul never used the word "Hell" one time in all his writings?

(14)That the Bible nowhere says that Jesus died to save us from Hell?

Surprised?

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Welcome to The Online Home of Glad Tidings Chapel

by e107 on Saturday 29 March 2008 - 23:06:08

For what its worth to anyone reading this, the search is over for the specific script and format to be used for this site and our mirror site at Enduring-grace.com. We have decided upon the e107 cms script for these websites. I have used it before. But for ease of use, and functionality, e107 can't be beat in my estimation of things. I just had to try a bunch of other junk to find that out.

Now that all that is out of the way...

This website will become a repository for information concerning Christian Universalist theology. I have quite a large amount of information to post here. Much of it is "scruffy" and unrefined, just like me. But don't be fooled; much of it isn't.

Our mirror site at Enduring-grace.com will take a slightly different posture on things. But it will also showcase Christian Universalist theology as well.

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